Curse

viper11025 · May 13, 2009, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

DISCLAIMER: THIS thread is NOT about “Guild Wars 2” It is to address a small concern for Guild Wars 1.

With recent activity from NCSoft, and Arena.net with Guild Wars Updates, and the 4th year celebration, I began to wonder if other things were happening in the background, and found something interesting.

"ArenaNet is looking for a passionate developer to help build the next generation of MMO-to-web services for Guild Wars 2. Take part in growing out V1 projects, producing scalable designs and high quality code. Candidates will work well independently and as part of the team vision."

( Before anyone points out the “Guild Wars 2” part, NOTE: That job also applies to Guild Wars 1 if they so chose it to )

To me that seems the games is going to start focusing on "Micro-Payments" like many other online free to play games. I really don't like this information think it would benefit the community of gamers out there to know that NCSoft is beginning to look sly and change their online "style" for games to match competition.

( Before anyone ask, Im saying al t his to get it off my mind before I go to take care of life things )

Worry:
The reason I bring this up is that I don't see to bright of a future for Guild Wars Series if it becomes another “Pay for the good stuff” kind of game, much like other out there I can't mention. The reason as to why they would use a Micro-Payment service are the same as all the others, to pay for the staff, money,time, and upgrades. If most people can just “Pay” for the good stuff, why would they even work for it or help a friend complete a mission to get it?, and then wouldn't the game economy go farther down, and ruin more? Even Guild Wars 2 would suffer if it had the same kind of “Micro-System” that follows along with the ability to give people with more money the ability to enjoy the game more and get more rewards than anyone else.

Thought:
My thought on this is that if this becomes a problem and I see a lot of people running around and using a voltaic spear from a “Random Weapon Pack -Contains 1 of 20 Extremely Rare Skin weapons, customized upon opening” or someone wearing obsidian armor set from a “Armor Kit -Contains one of 4 Armor Tokens -Bound tokens that can be traded for an elite armor set of the same type” then Im going to just Sign out for good and wait for Guild Wars 2.

Preservation:
Please simply don't let it become a problem.

Resources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropayment
http://tbe.taleo.net/NA5/ats/careers...&cws=1&rid=324

( /Sign )

Your thoughts?

Martin Firestorm · May 13, 2009, 04:07 PM // 16:07

My thought is the free online games you're comparing GW to have a huge difference from GW--they're free. GW is not free, just subscription-free. Don't fret, GW2 will have the same business model as GW--you pay for the game, and you can get non-necessary stuff via microtransactions.

Longasc · May 13, 2009, 04:09 PM // 16:09

I do not get why you link to the NCsoft GW job offer?

I agree that there is a trend in the industry towards micropayment systems. Just see "Free Realms", I guess many games will follow this model.

The questions are: How far will they go?

What is optional?
How much storage and char slots do we get by default, e.g.

Will there be special incentives to buy something "special" from the shop? And how will it affect gameplay?

I guess we will have to TRUST ANet that they do not go too far. They might hurt themselves in the end if they do.

And there is always the option to vote with the feet. I just fear that this does not matter that much, a lot of players paying a tiny sum now and then, and a few players buying a lot and voila, the system works perfectly.

viper11025 · May 13, 2009, 04:17 PM // 16:17

"Thought:
My thought on this is that if this becomes a problem and I see a lot of people running around and using a voltaic spear from a “Random Weapon Pack -Contains 1 of 20 Extremely Rare Skin weapons, customized upon opening” or someone wearing obsidian armor set from a “Armor Kit -Contains one of 4 Armor Tokens -Bound tokens that can be traded for an elite armor set of the same type” then Im going to just Sign out for good and wait for Guild Wars 2."

O.O
-Shudder-
Evil...........

MMSDome · May 13, 2009, 04:26 PM // 16:26

The things you pay for are bonus that you don't need. More storage isn't necessary and neither are characters. You paid for the base items now if you want more you can pay for them.

I am glad I do not pay a monthly fee because I am making out pretty good.

enter_the_zone · May 13, 2009, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Personally, I'd have no problem with micro-payments systems for EVERYTHING in-game, assuming they were also attainable for free.

Fril Estelin · May 13, 2009, 05:01 PM // 17:01

First time on Guru I'm using /facepalm.

There are so many things wrong, but basically: " if it becomes another “Pay for the good stuff” kind of game"

Like in GW1, "good stuff" is easy to get, max armor and weapons. VS never was "good stuff", it's popular stuff but not any better than my gold spear.

Please, please, hope this thread is not going to evolve into a twisting of words (storage as a game-altering feature)...

BrettM · May 13, 2009, 05:34 PM // 17:34

It seems to me that "MMO-to-Web" can mean a number of things, not just integration of the game with a store. Could be a better help system, /reporting system, customer relations (such as better access to GW news and announcements), bug tracking, etc.

LexxArc · May 13, 2009, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Truth is they haven't crossed the line and I doubt they ever will, they just offered extra features not needed to enjoy and play the game. Xunlai Panes are a luxury, make-overs are a luxury, and all the other features they offer are attainable ingame for free.

Anet is a company like all others and they want to make money, of where some or most will go to development of GW2. I rather have this with 'luxury' optional items in a free game, than 'free' items in a pay-to-play game.

Tullzinski · May 13, 2009, 05:56 PM // 17:56

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=20346

Quick search yeilded this real long article, way down at the bottom were a few comments:

"It's all about managing the cost of the client. Rather than spend tons of cash on custom client programming, including incredible complex patching and updating software, you use the web.

You also have complete control over content - content is never loaded to the user (well, in their cache it is and savy users will be able to find it, but the casual user will have trouble). It will also be impossible for users to create custom mods since the content is always served by the creators."

If this is what ANET is after then looks like they want to keep costs down and still bring us buy once to play. May have nothing to do with micro transactions.

Hyprocyon · May 13, 2009, 06:01 PM // 18:01

I hate to derail the sky is falling thread but if you continue reading the listing

Experience with modern web protocols and data formats (REST, JSON, SOAP, etc.)

Each of these protocols are methods for developing what's called a Web Service. That is a method for integrating or interacting with a thirdparty system over the web (sometimes called an API depending on exact usage and requirements).

They don't need anybody to develop a purchase system, they already have that. What they don't have is a web service capacity. The ability to transmit, share, etc information coming from the servers. A prominent (if not slightly simplified) example of this type of information would be WoW's Armory.

Perhaps these links would've been more useful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Service

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REST

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOAP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON

Daesu · May 13, 2009, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiki

Micropayments are used in some massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs).[3] These are typically free to play games with no monthly fee, which offer players the possibility of purchasing in-game currency redeemable for items. These items are often more powerful than those that can be obtained by "free" players, or offer an advantage or feature otherwise unavailable. An example would be a set of armor more effective than that obtained from generic in-game vendors or enemies, or a potion that allows a character to earn more experience points per quest completed or enemy slain, thereby progressing faster than usual.

Has ANet introduced items that are:

a) more powerful than those that can be obtained by "free" players" or
b) offer an advantage of feature otherwise unavailable?

The answer is no. Most of what they offer through their online stores are merely cosmetic in nature. Look at the BMP, do those weapons give higher damage than what can be obtained freely? Not really, but they have unique skins, so what? You can also buy a Pet unlock pack, but what advantage does that give you besides the cosmetic?

In fact, I would go so far to say that Voltaic Spears should be available in their online stores, as long as they dont give extra damage from the other maxed spears.

Why? Because I hate grind farming and boring trading, sitting in the game for hours with wtb and wts instead of playing it. Also because of our lifestyle differences (I have a job, a house, a mortage, and kids), I dont have as much time to play as many of you. I would rather buy a Voltaic Spear than to grind for it.

Sure, if the game rewards only grinding time and those whose lifestyle is based on zero responsibilities, I would definitely lose out. Anything that is based on in-game grind, and only cosmetic, should be made available in the store.

Kattar · May 13, 2009, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Why worry about what you have no control over?

Get this in your head: Guild Wars 2, if it ever appears, is a product, not a service. If you don't want it, you don't buy it. ANet is not obligated to cater to anyone. They can do whatever they want. That's what makes it a product.

Inde · May 13, 2009, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Ugh, this thread is going in too many directions and we're still on the front page. See Hyprocyon's post please. MMO-to-web services doesn't mean micropayments.

Skye Marin · May 13, 2009, 06:59 PM // 18:59

I think the BMP proves Anet's philosophy.

Bonus content, exclusive rewards. Tengu, Charr, Undead, and Mursaat weapons all look really good, and they are exclusive to those who have the BMP.

This means, if you get a prestige rewards from DLC, it's not going to be something you find in the game naturally. You'll never have to worry about Voltaic Spears or Obsidian armor being given away in DLC.

Skyy High · May 13, 2009, 07:57 PM // 19:57

OP is grasping at straws. The stated job description more than likely refers to incorporating a web browser into the game (like in Darkfall, I believe), stuff like /wiki and /help, maybe an auction house that people can log onto just using a web browser but is also tied directly into the game, stuff like that. How you managed to pull "micropayments" out of there, I have no idea.

tasha · May 13, 2009, 10:27 PM // 22:27

I work as a developer for a company creating software for TV broadcasting. Everything we do goes through a central server with database(s) across networks (sound similar to MMO architecture?). We use SOAP, XML and other "web based" languages to interface between the clients and servers because the protocol is light, easily scalable and has the beauty of being very easy to interface from the web, which makes less work if we want to do a web based client, or knock up something quick if we want to monitor a system remotely. This job advert looks to me like nothing more than ANet trying to stay with or ahead of the curve in terms of reusable and modern code and practices.

Quite frankly I'm excited they want to do this. There's a lot of power in that approach - as Skky says possibility of an Auction House, extention of /wiki (which is still a beta system incidentally).

Apollo Smile · May 13, 2009, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by tasha_darke

I work as a developer for a company creating software for TV broadcasting. Everything we do goes through a central server with database(s) across networks (sound similar to MMO architecture?). We use SOAP, XML and other "web based" languages to interface between the clients and servers because the protocol is light, easily scalable and has the beauty of being very easy to interface from the web, which makes less work if we want to do a web based client, or knock up something quick if we want to monitor a system remotely. This job advert looks to me like nothing more than ANet trying to stay with or ahead of the curve in terms of reusable and modern code and practices.

Quite frankly I'm excited they want to do this. There's a lot of power in that approach - as Skky says possibility of an Auction House, extention of /wiki (which is still a beta system incidentally).

Not to mention a Guild recruit webpage that directly integrates with the game. Or a system similiar to WoW's Armory, that displays character build, stats, achievements, etc. The possibilities are endless.

manager · May 13, 2009, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

Not to mention a Guild recruit webpage that directly integrates with the game. Or a system similiar to WoW's Armory, that displays character build, stats, achievements, etc. The possibilities are endless.

This. WoW Armory is a great example of what can be done in this way. (And at least it's an example of a better game than Darkfall)

Yawgmoth · May 14, 2009, 12:53 AM // 00:53

There are real threats of a change in business model, in the death of the good old system based entirely on buying complete products, but this job offer may just as well be something entirely different.

Web services may be something that improves or hurts the game and the range of possibilities is massive.

We can hope it's about something like WoW armory, an improved Guild ladder or Tournament to web live reporting, or a better support system, or a game info site that gets data straight from the game.

But it can be a nightmare money making machine, like the XTH taken to a new level, or a big Online Store with connections to direct character and account upgrades, done on a website instead of ingame itself just to support many more methods of payment (like Paypal).